Lee was telling me that something particularly exciting that’s happening – that the United States Playing Card Company is actually going to be attending the event. I’ve never even heard of the US Playing Card Company attending a magic convention before.

They’re going to be coming to talk to magicians about the Custom Playing Cards market, which is a really big thing, because when I was a kid we never even considered that the US Playing Card Company knew magicians existed; and now it seems like that has really changed, huh, Lee?

I was very lucky enough to work with the head of their marketing division, and I invited them to the bash, and they said yes. I’m extremely excited that they’re coming.

I don’t know if it’s the first time they’ve ever been to a magic convention, but I’m sure in recent history it’s the first time, and they also told me the only other convention that they’re going to be going to is Magic Live, so we’re in pretty good company.

I thought I would ask Lee to discuss with us this world of custom playing cards, and tell us a little bit about what it’s all about – so magicians like me who don’t have hardly any experience in this realm can start to get some of the joy and excitement out of this new universe that thousands of magicians, and card historians and collectors are getting every day.

We’ll talk more about the collecting side and the historian side in a moment; but I think most of your viewers are probably magicians, so they would care more about how this affects them as a magician. I’ve got to tell you, we’re in the age of innovation right now with Custom Playing Cards, and that’s a great thing for us. We’ll talk more about the innovation in a moment, but to sum up what I want to say is that it’s a really great time to be in the playing card kingdom right now.

My first question to you is, as a magician who only uses bicycle red and blue deck when I perform. (Aaron is holding a deck of Jerry’s Nuggets as he says this, but seems to have forgotten.)

We can get a little more specific in that. Maybe you like a type of design. You’re into one way design. Most magicians would not be into one way back design, but there are some. Let’s say you’re a magician and you like that symmetrical kind of back design; well, there’s a whole bunch of new artwork that’s coming out that kind of plays in that realm. It’s not necessarily the standard kind that we’re all used to, but they’re taking old ideas and trying to make them one of them, and that’s one of them, is taking these designs and really pushing them forward, because you have all these different kinds of graphic designers and artists that are entering into this field, and they’re not magicians; they don’t really care about cards, per se; but they do care about the design and the artwork. You’re seeing these guys come in now, and that’s really fun.

More importantly, let’s say you are a magician, and let’s say you’re doing something of the bizarre nature, right? Well, would it make sense to have a deck of card, let’s say there’s a guy named Chris Odijenko, I think his last name is, and he has a deck called the Occult Deck, and … Give me a second, it’ll come to me.

There’s so many of these cards, like Alexander Chin’s, like you were talking about, where these things have been carefully considered, and they don’t take design out of the realm of function. Form follows function, right? So if you can’t read the cards, it’s a little bit tricky.

A lot of people, I can hear it, I can hear it out in your land out there. People are saying, “Well, you know, Lee, if you introduce these kinds of weird cards that no-one knows, instantly people are going to think that they’re gaff decks, they’re trick cards.”

I would agree with you, up until about 2004. In 2004 there was, like I say, an evolution in the custom market with the Black Tiger Deck from Illusions. Since then, United States Playing Card Company has been making all these different types of cards and selling them through Walmart, and through their distribution lines. You can walk into a Walmart right now and see a dozen, maybe two dozen different kinds of United States Playing Card Company decks for sale. To say that only the red and blue rider backs are the only ones that pass muster; that’s not fair anymore.

Like I say, they have kind of saturated the market with all these different kinds, and so I don’t think people are going to think they’re trick cards. Even more so, when you put them in their hand, like “Here’s my Season Deck, have a look.” They get to touch and feel, then that throws all of the doubt out the door.

First you get their interest, then they care enough to inspect the deck, so to speak, and then at that point it’s up to you to do some magic that has proof built into it – the conviction and the proof that leads people to understand that these cards are ordinary in every way they know of, with the possible exception of having magical powers. I have to agree with you on that, that whether to not they think the cards are tricky is much more a function of what you convey with your handling and presentation.

One of the things that keeps happening to me a great deal is, I will get Facebook messages and emails from people telling me that they have a campaign going on a platform, which is just gaining this tremendous momentum: Kickstarter, which seems to be the hotbed of where all of the action is.

I’ve checked it out, I’ve seen some of these projects, I’ve seen some really cool ones, I’ve seen some ones that are slightly more half-baked, just from my own perception. Give us a beginners guide to Kickstarter for card magicians.

If the crowd decides that it’s not cool, then he doesn’t fund it, and he doesn’t waste his time on the R&D. The things that get funded are the things that get pushed forward, and the things that are pushing the envelope. Really clever stuff. What’s even more interesting, is now you’re seeing the manufacturers hanging out on Kickstarter, watching what’s going on, and trying to help these artists in making and manufacturing what people want to see.

You’re talking about all these processes that maybe were old, but have now become modern again; like being able to lay foil on the back of a card. I’m not talking about the box, I’m actually talking about the actual back of a card. I’m not talking about printing metallic ink, I’m talking about heat stamping foil on the back of the card. It’s crazy, but this is the kind of stuff that’s being pushed out because of the innovation that’s happening through the crowdfunding on Kickstarter. It’s really great to watch, and I highly suggest that you should get on there and just type in ‘playing card’ and see what comes up, and you’re going to see artists from all over the place just putting their art on playing cards.

I saw a guy who’s a 3D metal worker, and he created this … I don’t even know what it is, it’s just this thing that sits on top of the tuck box, that’s metal, with gears, and it’s amazing. It’s amazing. His name is Chris Mathis, and you can Google him, it’s the Chris Mathis deck. Really clever stuff. How does that translate to help us as magicians? That deck specifically, not so much; but in the scheme of things, again, we’re watching this innovation happen. The better our tools become, well, I don’t have to explain that, right? The better our tools become, the better we’re going to become, and more possibilities open up. I think it’s fascinating, really fascinating to watch what’s happening on Kickstarter.

He was one of the first guys to create his own finish so the cards would slide better. That’s interesting, especially for us as magicians. Talking about squeezers, he and New York’s Consolidated Card Company kind of got into an argument over how cards should be displayed. Playing cards, a lot of it’s dictated by the games that we play. That was dictated by whist and bridge.

If you think about it, these are games where you hold a whole bunch of cards in your hand, so how do you look at 13 cards in one glance? Andrew Dougherty came up with his solve for that problem, and a company called New York Consolidated Card Company came up with a solve for that company, and then it was about marketing and who could market better. What did the masses choose? The masses actually chose the New York Consolidated Card Company’s squeezer concept.

The indices that we know today, like these indices. This is New York Consolidated Card Company’s concept of how we should look at playing cards. Like I say, it all stems from being able to squeeze the card in your hand so you can get a full read in one glance. Again, we’re talking about innovation. These are two companies that are innovating, in the end helping the end user, the consumer. It’s super fascinating, and I love that. I love that.

Those alterations were never sanctioned methods by these playing card creators, right? (smiles)

Sure, the blue and reds are Bicycle cards, but like I say, if you use that Ouija deck with a routine where you’re doing some kind of cold reading or something, that’s topical. Now that makes sense. Now you’re layering your routines, you’re giving it texture. That’s what makes us better performers, and the magic more powerful.

The thing that I love so much about history of all sorts is that it helps us make sense of the present and even the future, because like you were just saying, what we consider to be a very antiquated idea like the bicycle, was actually a very topical idea at the time it was made. It was not an old thing that people used at the beach, or to climb up mountains for fun on Saturdays or in competitions; it was a new … It was like the Segway of its day. It was a brand new, far-out expensive thing that you could get that was all the rage.

This, as a magician, this really points out to me what I think the most relevant, and if you’re looking for a reason to care about the history of playing cards, you can do no better than that this: the more you know about what’s actually fascinating and interesting about  the cards in your hand, the better.

On a human level, because these days people are excited by ideas, people are ready to hear something interesting, and one of the things that puts up a barrier between magic and audiences is, there’s a real sense that there’s nothing new here. If you can break that pattern by sharing something interesting, and real, and insightful; that all of a sudden creates a transition and a context for the magic that you’re going to perform.

This is all stuff another wonderful playing card collector and historian, it was Bill Kalush that shared this book with me, Magic and Showmanship – such a profoundly useful book. One of the great point the author makes about casual conjuring, about not being a stage performer, is that if you know what you’re talking about, if you have something interesting to share with the audience, it lends a authenticity and authority to what you are doing, that all by itself makes the magic that follows it feel that much more authentic and that much less like a puzzle.

I would say to our magician friends, if for no other reason than to be able to share something real with your audience that they really haven’t heard before. They may have heard someone say “Pick a card.” They may have dreamed that they heard a person say “Pick a card.” Or seen a movie where someone said “Pick a card.”; but then to hear someone share with them something that has a really fascinating element to it, well that means that this is a fascinating situation they’re in. Then when that same person says “Take one of those out of there.”, all of a sudden you’ve changed the entire ground before you started.

Where should I go if I want to start to poke around, but I don’t want to find myself in too deep water too fast?

There’s the antique collector, the vintage collector, and the modern collector. The antique guy is anything pre-1930. If you were collecting decks from 1880, you’re pretty much considered an antique collector. Anything from like 1931 to about 1995 is the vintage world. I love those kinds of decks. That’s your Jerry’s Nugget right there, that falls into the vintage area. Anything 1996 and on is the modern world. Like I say, you’ll find forums that cater to these specific categories.

The one that I spend the most time on is the one owned by the American Playing Card Collectors Association, called the 52 Plus Joker. They also own the world’s largest playing card forum, and it’s called playingcardforum.com. You can go there, you can lurk; what that means is you don’t have to sign up or give your email, or anything, you can just go and look and read, and not have to ask questions, or whatever you want. That’s probably the best advice I can give you if you just want to put your toe in, is go to the playing card forum and start looking around. It’s broken down into sections, like the playing card plethora is where all the modern stuff sits. Then there’s the vintage area, and in there mixes in with the antique stuff. The guy who owns the board, because it’s actually owned by one man who is the president of the 52 Plus Joker, and then he gives it to the club for their use, his name is Tom Dawson. He’s the world’s premier expert on American playing cards, he and his wife Judy.

There was a guy named Eugene Hawkman who wrote the Hawkman Encyclopedia of American Playing Cards. He had it in booklet form, and then at one point Tom and Judy put them together, and this is after, I think, Eugene passed away. Tom and Judy put all of the volumes together into one book … I have it right in front of me. How interesting is that? It’s on my desk. It’s a major, major research. It’s called the Hawkman Encyclopedia of Playing Cards, and it’s a wonderful, wonderful book; but, pretty much everything stops in the vintage world here. There’s very little modern talk in this, because this was written before the modern explosion. Again, that’s where the playing card forum comes in.

Depending one what you like to collect is where your search will take you. My best advice for the beginner is go to playingcardforum.com, have a look around. If you like it enough, register, it’s free. You just put your email in, your name, and your username, and boom, you’re part of the board, and now you’re in. You start looking around. What’s really nice about playing card world versus magic world, is there are no secrets in playing card world. Magic, there are secrets, so that’s understandable; but in playing card world there’s very little secrets, so usually the people are very friendly and they want to share as much info with you as possible. I’m not saying that doesn’t happen in the magic world, but it doesn’t happen as quickly in the magic world as it does in the playing card world.

You’ll find that it’s very friendly, very easy. There are plenty of people who will answer your questions. There are plenty of people who have had the same questions as you. If you want, like I say, please come and check it out, I think you’d like it.

It’s going to be a really sensational convention. I personally wish I could be there for it, but I wanted to send out all of our love from down south, from those of us who can’t be there, and thank you so much for sharing with us, just the tip of your extensive wisdom on custom playing cards and the modern world of playing card design, and collecting, and the intersection of that, and history and magic itself. I think we all have a lot more perspective on what it is, what it’s all about, and exactly what it may hold for us depending on a wide variety of our interests and our experiences in magic. Lee Asher, thank you so much for joining us.